Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jim White on
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As I recall, skaters who drop off the team are no longer considered part of the team, IMO its like they never finished the race. Actually, if two many (2, I think) drop, the entire team is disqualified. But best to check with the Metrodome sponsors and ask their position regarding dropped skaters.
But keep in mind that it's possible that a team would designate someone to pull for the first part of the race, then expect they'd drop because they're exhausted, yet the team could consider them the key person in a victory. Of course, that's similar to Duluth, Worlds, and other pro-type races; the person with the first place medal isn't necessarily the best skater, or the one who has done the most to help a team win. Sometimes the best aren't recognized publicly, just by their team, and their peers on other teams who they've outskated. And for those best, that's the important recognition.
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Permalink Reply by Larry Kaufman on
- What about skaters that skate both the individual and tem event?
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From line 8 of the original post:
"We'll use the best time for skaters who race in both the team and solo marathons."
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Permalink Reply by Ty Fidler on
- I think the team time should be based on the fourth person's time across the line...similar to a team pursuit in long track ice skating. In my opinion, this would most fairly represent the "effort" of the team as a whole. If you just take the time of the fastest skater (for each team), then that would be similar to an individual race, with team tactics "deployed." As someone that may participate in the team event, I like the idea of staying together and working as a team for the entire race.
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The preceding proposal is the same as the originally stated plan, by Mr. Burnson. The official Metrodome Inline Marathon team time is the time of the 4th skater. BTW, if a team doesn't stay together because of a skater being slow, that skater is out of the race, if two skaters, the team is out of the race. If a skater goes much ahead of the team, that's a waste of his/her effort, which would be better used helping the slower skaters, whose time will be everyone's time (also, in the past, the solo skater would be diqualified, but I don't know about this year's race).
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Permalink Reply by Rayna Meyer on
- I really have no opinion either way on the team or a person who drops from the team halfway thru. I mean. I could agree with both of Jim White's statements that once you drop from the team you're done, but ....what if your part of the team was to to the major sprint pulls then exhaust out,.. ya know? I mean I guess that's all in team strategizing and figuring out well, who signed up for NROC and who didnt. If it comes down to that I'm sure all NROC people will be finishing and everyone else will be left to die as we thank them for the pull. IN MY HUMBLE OPINION... I think if people sign up for the pro nroc, than they are willing to do the hard work it takes to place for nroc,...which means...I think all participants should be a part of the finishing team, as in they cross the finish line. Meaning, if you signed up for nroc.. you should be a part of the finishing team. If someone has to drop from the team, let it be a non nroc person. I'm just looking for equal/fair competition here. so, thats the only way I can see it fair.
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My statement immediately above was explanation of Rollerdome rules, and the rules of virtually all group time trials; NROC doesn't change rules of its host events. The issue of who drops from a team is the decision of the team and/or the individual skater (who may have done all the hard work, or may have gotten a cramp/whatever, or may be the weakest skater, also see my first response regarding strategy).
Perhaps the operable suggestion, to answer Robert's orignial question, is that everyone on the starting team be given the team's time, that way all skaters on a team are can stratagize solely on skating ability for the best team performance, regardless of NROC status (which may be irrelevant to some team members).
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Yeah thats true, it is a Team Time TRial, so it is the effort of the team/teamwork to get atleast four people across the finish line wether you're being competitive with other teams or just for the joy of participating on a team.
but then again I think there should be a minimum amout of laps you have to finish in order to qualify for nroc, say 60 laps... than you are a whole team for the majority of the race and can strategize sprints and pulls, then after 60 whoever needs to drop from exhaustion and can do so, and still get nroc pts for when/where the rest of the team finishes (if a nroc person was to be the one that happened to drop). get it? anyone could drop at anytime, but if you were for nroc than you must atleast complete 60 or whatever laps to recieve full points for your/your teams performance......?make sense to anyone else but me? lol
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Permalink Reply by Mr. T on
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There is a precendente, an Olympic one at that. The 100 km team race in cycling which has been dropped from the program. The formula was that the time is taken on the 3rd cyclist (out of 4) to cross the finish line. You do that to allow mostly for possible mechanical problems. Otherwise, you lose one wheel and all team is out of contention. Then, many teams used to designate someone to pull hard in the first part of the race and he ended up dropping from his teammates. However, he did not stop his race just in case one of his teammates suffered a mechanical problem.
Allowing one teammate to drop by taking the time on the second from the last among the team members across the finish line is wise if one does not want to penalize too much mechanical problems. Then, a team can use this "allowance" to gamble on a strategy, though well knowing that they could pay the price if some of the remaining teammates were to suffer that unlikely but not impossible mechanical issue.
I think that this kind of team events should be encouraged in general for they would be 1) fun; 2) different from the usual races ending in a mass sprint more or less; 3) give a meaning to the word team in inline skating besides wearing the same skinsuit.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Burnson on
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Hi, all.
I looked at the times from last year's Metrodome IM to see how the NROC scores would have been awarded if we had been using our blending idea for this year. Here's how we would have scored it:
1st place: Midwest Skate Club
2nd: Adams Inline A
3rd: David Swan (solo)
4th: Donavon Sellers (solo)
5th: Trevor Casey (solo)
6th: Steve Meisinger
7th: Tommy Peterson
8th: Gary Blank
9th: Phil Moen
10th: Team No Name
etc.
This looks good to me. A mix of team and solo skaters would get the pro points. ... I know it's not head-to-head, which is everyone's preference. But this event is not really head to head in any event.
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- I am glad this is being discussed and I hope the final decision has not been made yet. I have some issues with this proposed method of scoring:
This event is very much head to head! There are many opportunities for tactics in both the TTT and the ITT. The ITT is not truly a solo time trial, as much as competitors are not required to skate with a set group of racers. ITT racers still draft each other and work together in many instances, much like a breakaway group forms and works together until the last few miles.
The Metrodome inline marathon is a unique event. There is NOTHING like it in the entire world. Because of that and that alone it should not be tainted by trying to appease all parties. In other NROC events the main event receives the highest points. Taking for example the NYC 100K – this season the 100K will be a Mega event and Pro NROC registrants will vie for full points – at the same time and at the same event no less, Advanced racers will compete in the marathon distance competing for that title.
I propose that the TTT be run as the premier event that it is and in an attempt to keep varying NROC rules to a minimum, only participants of the TTT should be awarded Pro NROC points. Participants of the Individual Time Trial should be Advanced skaters anyway and therefore be awarded NROC points in that division.
The ITT is a great event and should be a stepping stone of encouragement to join a group and therefore advance their skills and bolster friendships. Paceline skating is invaluable and the Metrodome has been vital in the development of safe paceline skating skills for all levels. The TTT is a great way to show that sponsored teams and teams comprised of “folks who like to skate together” can compete at the same time.
I do have another example of why combining the two separate events is a poor idea, but I hope this plea was enough.
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- Should individual skaters be considered second class? Is being a member of a team a necessary part of being a top-level skater?
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